John Bokma wrote:
> SEO Dave wrote:
>
>> On 7 Mar 2005 18:13:22 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> 99 out of 100 times it's a toolbar bug.
>>>
>>> Nah, more like a glitch or network overload (not per se Google's).
>>> Sometimes your browser can't fetch a page from a site, if you reload
>>> it works. Browser bug? Nop.
>>
>> I didn't want to confuse the OP with the not so relevant information.
>
> So you scare the OP with bugs? LOL
>
>> The grey PR behaviour could be a toolbar bug
>
> Nop, doubt that. Then it would be reproduceable, and by now been
> fixed.
>
>> or a bad connection to
>> the server the toolbar receives it's data from.
>
> Yup, or a glitch more down the drain.
>
>> You could argue a failure to show the true PR due to a bad connection
>> is a bug since the toolbar could keep retrying to connect until it
>> receives the data
>
> No, since that is a bug. It would flood the network with requests, a
> DDOS.
>
>> (would probably be pushing the definition of a
>> software bug though :-))
>
> You would be creating one.

About 5% of my pages went grey around 27th Feb and stayed grey for 3 days,
which was as long as I observed them without changing anything at my end. I
also observed that a few specific pages on other sites had also gone grey.
It was the same pages every time I checked, so was it was a consistent lack
of PR data in the database my toolbar was working from?. I then deleted my
Google toolbar (and sent a why are you removing me? message "gives grey PR
for 5% of sites") and reloaded the toolbar and all was green again. My
guess is that the new tool bar is reading PR from a different PR server with
a full database.
Best regards, Eric.

Eric Johnston wrote:

> working from?. I then deleted my Google toolbar (and sent a why are
> you removing me? message "gives grey PR for 5% of sites") and reloaded
> the toolbar and all was green again. My guess is that the new tool
> bar is reading PR from a different PR server with a full database.

Doubt it. Why would Google have a server dat gives grey PR for 5% of *your*
sites?

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

On 9 Mar 2005 18:30:21 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
wrote:

>Eric Johnston wrote:
>
>> working from?. I then deleted my Google toolbar (and sent a why are
>> you removing me? message "gives grey PR for 5% of sites") and reloaded
>> the toolbar and all was green again. My guess is that the new tool
>> bar is reading PR from a different PR server with a full database.
>
>Doubt it. Why would Google have a server dat gives grey PR for 5% of *your*
>sites?

There is evidence (though I've had no reason to follow it up) that
there are at least two PR servers (which you'd expect with the amount
of queries they must get a day).

If there are multiple servers at times some will be more up to date
than others and so different people will see different PR results.
Also Google is known to test things out like algo changes on some
servers earlier than others, so why not the same with the PR toolbar
readings.

Some here have experienced this with what has been jokingly referred
to as a predictive toolbar. They see different PRs than the rest of
us, usually noticed when a big change occurs.

David
--
Free Search Engine Optimization Tutorial
http://www.seo-gold.com/tutorial/

Eric Johnston wrote:
> John Bokma wrote:
>> SEO Dave wrote:
>>
>>> On 7 Mar 2005 18:13:22 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> 99 out of 100 times it's a toolbar bug.
>>>>
>>>> Nah, more like a glitch or network overload (not per se Google's).
>>>> Sometimes your browser can't fetch a page from a site, if you
>>>> reload it works. Browser bug? Nop.
>>>
>>> I didn't want to confuse the OP with the not so relevant
>>> information.
>>
>> So you scare the OP with bugs? LOL
>>
>>> The grey PR behaviour could be a toolbar bug
>>
>> Nop, doubt that. Then it would be reproduceable, and by now been
>> fixed.
>>
>>> or a bad connection to
>>> the server the toolbar receives it's data from.
>>
>> Yup, or a glitch more down the drain.
>>
>>> You could argue a failure to show the true PR due to a bad
>>> connection is a bug since the toolbar could keep retrying to
>>> connect until it receives the data
>>
>> No, since that is a bug. It would flood the network with requests, a
>> DDOS.
>>
>>> (would probably be pushing the definition of a
>>> software bug though :-))
>>
>> You would be creating one.
>
> About 5% of my pages went grey around 27th Feb and stayed grey for 3
> days, which was as long as I observed them without changing anything
> at my end. I also observed that a few specific pages on other sites
> had also gone grey. It was the same pages every time I checked, so
> was it was a consistent lack of PR data in the database my toolbar
> was working from?. I then deleted my Google toolbar (and sent a why
XX> are you removing me? message "gives grey PR for 5% of pages") and
> reloaded the toolbar and all was green again. My guess is that the
> new tool bar is reading PR from a different PR server with a full
> database. Best regards, Eric.
XX edited above: now reads "gives grey PR for 5% of pages" (not sites)

SEO Dave wrote:

> On 9 Mar 2005 18:30:21 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Eric Johnston wrote:
>>
>>> working from?. I then deleted my Google toolbar (and sent a why are
>>> you removing me? message "gives grey PR for 5% of sites") and
>>> reloaded the toolbar and all was green again. My guess is that the
>>> new tool bar is reading PR from a different PR server with a full
>>> database.
>>
>>Doubt it. Why would Google have a server dat gives grey PR for 5% of
>>*your* sites?
>
> There is evidence (though I've had no reason to follow it up) that
> there are at least two PR servers

Knowing Google's love with redundancy, and simple math, probably would
tell you there are many many more.

> (which you'd expect with the amount
> of queries they must get a day).

Just 2?

> If there are multiple servers at times some will be more up to date
> than others and so different people will see different PR results.

Yup, and glitches, as I already wrote. No toolbar bugs :-D.

> Also Google is known to test things out like algo changes on some
> servers earlier than others, so why not the same with the PR toolbar
> readings.

Could be, doubt it.

> Some here have experienced this with what has been jokingly referred
> to as a predictive toolbar. They see different PRs than the rest of
> us, usually noticed when a big change occurs.

But again, it's weird that one gets grey PR for 5% of *his* sites.

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

Eric Johnston wrote:

> XX edited above: now reads "gives grey PR for 5% of pages" (not sites)

But only for 5% of *your* pages? Or in general?

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

On 11 Mar 2005 02:18:33 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
wrote:

>SEO Dave wrote:

>>>Doubt it. Why would Google have a server dat gives grey PR for 5% of
>>>*your* sites?
>>
>> There is evidence (though I've had no reason to follow it up) that
>> there are at least two PR servers
>
>Knowing Google's love with redundancy, and simple math, probably would
>tell you there are many many more.
>
>> (which you'd expect with the amount
>> of queries they must get a day).
>
>Just 2?

I'm going on what I know, not what I assume to occur. I know some
people are getting different PR data, therefore there must be at least
2 servers.

If you want me to assume, I'd assume there are a lot more than 2
servers used.

>> If there are multiple servers at times some will be more up to date
>> than others and so different people will see different PR results.
>
>Yup, and glitches, as I already wrote. No toolbar bugs :-D.

LOL.

If you want my opinion I'd go with glitches not bugs, but that doesn't
exclude the possibility.

>> Also Google is known to test things out like algo changes on some
>> servers earlier than others, so why not the same with the PR toolbar
>> readings.
>
>Could be, doubt it.

Why not? PR is part of the search algo and though the PR we see via
the toolbar probably isn't used in the search calculations, when they
change the PR formula in the search algo they probably do a
corresponding change in the toolbar data.

>> Some here have experienced this with what has been jokingly referred
>> to as a predictive toolbar. They see different PRs than the rest of
>> us, usually noticed when a big change occurs.
>
>But again, it's weird that one gets grey PR for 5% of *his* sites.

It was a typo, he meant pages not sites.

If it was a glitch wouldn't you expect to see all pages PR grey when
the toolbar user experiences the glitch, sounds a bit like a bug to me
:-)

David
--
Free Search Engine Optimization Tutorial
http://www.seo-gold.com/tutorial/

SEO Dave wrote:

> On 11 Mar 2005 02:18:33 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
> wrote:
>
>>SEO Dave wrote:
>
>>>>Doubt it. Why would Google have a server dat gives grey PR for 5% of
>>>>*your* sites?
>>>
>>> There is evidence (though I've had no reason to follow it up) that
>>> there are at least two PR servers
>>
>>Knowing Google's love with redundancy, and simple math, probably would
>>tell you there are many many more.
>>
>>> (which you'd expect with the amount
>>> of queries they must get a day).
>>
>>Just 2?
>
> I'm going on what I know, not what I assume to occur. I know some
> people are getting different PR data, therefore there must be at least
> 2 servers.

Not necessarily, I mean it's possible to give people different data with
one server.

But I doubt that just 2 servers can handle the traffic. I used to surf
the whole day with IE + Toolbar, and that are quite a lot of queries.

> If you want me to assume, I'd assume there are a lot more than 2
> servers used.

Yup, I understand that Google doesn't reside in just one physical
location, so it's even necessary.

>>> If there are multiple servers at times some will be more up to date
>>> than others and so different people will see different PR results.
>>
>>Yup, and glitches, as I already wrote. No toolbar bugs :-D.
>
> LOL.
>
> If you want my opinion I'd go with glitches not bugs, but that doesn't
> exclude the possibility.

Again: it's not a bug in the Toolbar software.

>>> Also Google is known to test things out like algo changes on some
>>> servers earlier than others, so why not the same with the PR toolbar
>>> readings.
>>
>>Could be, doubt it.
>
> Why not? PR is part of the search algo and though the PR we see via
> the toolbar probably isn't used in the search calculations, when they
> change the PR formula in the search algo they probably do a
> corresponding change in the toolbar data.

Again, doubt it.

>>But again, it's weird that one gets grey PR for 5% of *his* sites.
>
> It was a typo, he meant pages not sites.

Yup, but again the question is: 5% of the pages of *his* site, and *his*
site alone?

> If it was a glitch wouldn't you expect to see all pages PR grey when
> the toolbar user experiences the glitch, sounds a bit like a bug to me
> :-)

Sure David. Again there is no bug in the Toolbar software. It just
fetches a bit of data from a server. That works or doesn't work. And if
it doesn't, due to a bug, it would have been fixed ages ago, and before
any public release. A network glitch can cause that the software can't
get the PR. But that's not a bug.

The fetching of the PageRank is so simple that even a beginner can
program it in 20 lines of Perl (without using the PageRank module that
is). And I assume the programmers at Google can hardly be called
beginners.

Moreover, the fetching of the data is just a HTTP request with a special
UserAgent. If you tweak the user agent in Firefox, and know how to
calculate the checksum you can do the query manually.

So there is even no room for a bug.

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

John Bokma wrote:
> Eric Johnston wrote:
>
>> XX edited above: now reads "gives grey PR for 5% of pages" (not
>> sites)
>
> But only for 5% of *your* pages? Or in general?

Sorry for the typo.

It was about 5% of the pages on my web site. say 6 quite specific pages out
of say 115. Always the same 6 pages and all the time grey for 3 days, until
I renewed the toolbar when all went green immediately.

On two other sites I examined, a similar 5% proportion of pages had gone
grey and these also returned to green at the same time I renewed my toolbar
as above. When I renewed my toolbar I selected a different country or
something as compared with before.

I think the toolbar pulls the PR from one of several PR servers and that the
old toolbar was pulling from a PR server with incomplete database. There
has been no significant change in the ranking of the pages. I was a bit
worried however as one of my affected pages was an important page and when
investigated I found that one link from my page was to a site using a link
farm and which had a grey home page. I spent half the night removing links
to my pages that I thought had been penalised to try and stop the plague
spreading - talk about being paranoid !.

The home page of the dodgy site has since gone green again, thank goodness,
but I still disapprove of their site and don't really like linking to it.
Do you know how to write a simple reliable javascript link that stops Google
following a link to such a dodgy site yet allows my visitors to get to their
rather interesting and valuable information ?

Best regards, Eric.

Eric Johnston wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>> Eric Johnston wrote:
>>
>>> XX edited above: now reads "gives grey PR for 5% of pages" (not
>>> sites)
>>
>> But only for 5% of *your* pages? Or in general?
>
> Sorry for the typo.
>
> It was about 5% of the pages on my web site. say 6 quite specific
> pages out of say 115. Always the same 6 pages and all the time grey
> for 3 days, until I renewed the toolbar when all went green
> immediately.
>
> On two other sites I examined, a similar 5% proportion of pages had
> gone grey and these also returned to green at the same time I renewed
> my toolbar as above.

Yours, or just random?

> When I renewed my toolbar I selected a different
> country or something as compared with before.
>
> I think the toolbar pulls the PR from one of several PR servers and
> that the old toolbar was pulling from a PR server with incomplete
> database.

That would mean that a zillion people would have that problem, and
Google would notice that.

> The home page of the dodgy site has since gone green again, thank
> goodness, but I still disapprove of their site and don't really like
> linking to it. Do you know how to write a simple reliable javascript
> link that stops Google following a link to such a dodgy site yet
> allows my visitors to get to their rather interesting and valuable
> information ?

Yup, see:
<http://www.google.com/googleblog/2005/01/preventing-comment-spam.html>

simple: <a href="...." rel="nofollow">...</a>

Note that if people are going to use this a lot it will mean the death
of PR etc.

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html